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The soul of Rob Bell

Pastor, author finds life beyond strictures of conservative Christianity

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Rob Bell, gay news, Washington Blade
Rob Bell, gay news, Washington Blade

Pastor/author Rob Bell says the Bible must be understood as a human book written in specific historical contexts. (Photo courtesy the Bohlsen Group)

Rob Bell

 

Everything is Spiritual Tour

 

The Fillmore Silver Spring

 

8656 Colesville Rd.

 

Silver Spring, Md.

 

Wednesday, July 22

 

8:30 p.m.

 

$25-35

 

fillmoresilverspring.com

 

ticketmaster.com

 

robbell.com

 

Once one of the darlings of white evangelical America, Rob Bell drew strong condemnation when he veered off script with his 2011 book “Love Wins,” a New York Times bestseller in which he dared to suggest hell isn’t the literal fire-and-brimstone torture chamber fundamentalist Christians have long claimed.

He left Mars Hill Bible Church, the Grandville, Mich., church he started at age 28 in 1999, in 2012 and has pursued several ventures since from a book with his wife Kristen (“The Zimzum of Love”), a tour with Oprah Winfrey (the 2014 “Life You Want Tour”) and more. Named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine in 2011, Bell’s own “Everything is Spiritual Tour” comes to Silver Spring, Md., next week. Bell is an LGBT ally and spoke with us by phone this week from New Orleans to talk about trends in contemporary U.S. Christianity, how he feels the Scriptures have been abused on all kinds of topics and what message he feels God has for LGBT people. His comments have been slightly edited for length.

 

WASHINGTON BLADE: You write a lot in your book “Velvet Elvis” about the work of binding and loosing and wrestling with scriptural texts. What kind of binding and loosing work are you doing on your tour?

ROB BELL: I’m trying to give people a new story, a story that helps them see that science and spirituality are long-lost dance partners and because of what we know about the universe and the fact that it’s an expanding universe, along with what we know about how our hearts work, I feel there are endless connections between the two. So that’s what I’m doing — asking some questions about what is this thing that keeps unfolding and moving forward … and what does it look like to have an integrated view of your life in the world so that it’s not just random fragments, but you have a sense that the whole thing is going somewhere and you’re going somewhere with it.

 

BLADE: How’s it going?

BELL: Oh my word, it’s so much fun. I just love this. … It’s kind of somewhere between a one-man show and a tent talk and a recovery meeting and hopefully an inspiring sermon in there too. It’s like a mishmash of art forms and I just love doing it.

 

BLADE: As you’ve veered away from traditional evangelical Christianity, who is your audience now? Are you finding acceptance among mainline Protestants?

BELL: I always thought the word evangelical meant good news, so I always thought it meant a joyous announcement that we are all loved and are all brothers and sisters and all in this together and let’s all work to deal with the suffering and the real problems in the world. So the idea of a subculture that liked to claim that word sort of always seemed ridiculous to me. … I didn’t grow up with any denominational affiliation, so I was dealing with this stuff kind of all across the spectrum whether it be Eastern Orthodox to Catholic to Christian to whatever, I was really talking about what it means to be human.

 

BLADE: Yes, but when we talk about voting trends and demographics and so on, evangelicals are counted separately from mainline Protestants and Roman Catholics. Do you not think in terms of these spheres?

BELL: No. I just never knew what they were talking about really. I mean I was always pro science. When they’d talk about these different groups, I’d be like, “Well, I’m not in that group, they’re saying crazy things.” But I did notice definitely from early on that I endlessly found myself discovering people who were on the same journey from all across the spectrum and to be honest with you, early on I found that all those labels just meant nothing. I’d end up in some setting and I’d be like, “Wait, these people are having the same discussion over here.” Mennonites are having a non-violence discussion, Catholics are talking about the importance of creativity in art, the Eastern Orthodox are talking about the centrality of mystery in faith … There was a through-line through the whole discussion so that even when we were pastoring (Mars Hill), we never saw it as putting together a religion. … When I hear people talk about these people vote this way or those people vote that way, I’m sure there’s some truth in those things on a general level, but they were never very interesting to me.

 

BLADE: So are you averse to “we-they” thinking in general?

BELL: Yeah. It just never seemed like a very interesting discussion.

 

BLADE: You took a lot of heat for daring to suggest a different view of hell in “Love Wins.” How much of that did you anticipate?

BELL: I did a series of sermons on women’s equality probably in 2002, so I had experienced this kind of unique venom that religious people spew when they believe they’re defending God. I had done a series of sermons questioning the war in Iraq, my first book had apparently made some people upset so while “Love Wins” was louder, the knobs were turned up, it was really a natural ongoing progression of what I’d been experiencing for over decade. … It’s interesting to see how many people aren’t familiar with the fact that nothing I’m saying in that book is really new. These ideas have been present in the Christian tradition for a number of years.

 

BLADE: Did you fear getting pigeonholed as “Rob Bell, the guy who says there’s no hell”?

BELL: (laughs) It’s not something I even think about. You can’t take people where they don’t want to go. Some people when they talk about faith, what they’re really talking about is fear. They’re not interested in expanding or growing … so I don’t use much energy thinking about it.

 

BLADE: Your critics seem to have pegged you as somebody who wants to have his cake and eat it too. What’s the biggest misconception about you?

BELL: What does that even mean?

 

BLADE: Well, broadly speaking, the criticism seems to come down to an opinion that you want to enjoy the kind, loving God but just skip over the unpleasant parts like the hell, fire and brimstone. It’s a recurring theme among your critics.

BELL: It’s just funny to hear that. It’s a weird critique number one and number two, these people who claim to be sharing the good news, oh wait, it’s actually bad news. If you’re literally operating from a world view that says billions and billions and billions are going to be tormented forever in some sort of conscious hell because they didn’t believe in somebody they never heard about … that’s a horror story. That is such a psychologically devastating portrait of the universe we’re living in, who could ever bear that? So if they’re like, “He won’t include that,” that’s correct, I don’t find that even remotely compelling … Fear is wonderful for behavior modification to a certain degree, but I think probably in your life and mine, what actually transforms your life is when you are given a new vision of who you might be in the world. You can scare people a little to get them to behave right or be moral or vote a particular way or raise money for your thing, but in my experience as a pastor, people are transformed when they hear a fresh new word of imagination about who they are and who they can become. So when people say, “He doesn’t want to bring that stuff up,” well, I’m in line with millions of people of faith who are more interested in making the world a better place. I’m laughing because sometimes the critiques are like, “Are you kidding me?”

 

BLADE: So those Bible verses you never see on coffee mugs like “depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” that Christ supposedly says to the damned, what do you feel those verses mean?

BELL: Well I think first and foremost, everything Jesus was doing was in the context of first century Jewish culture … a people that had been oppressed by one global military super power, the Romans, that was just another oppressive super power in a long line of them from the Persians to the Greeks to the Babylonians and more. These were people who had been conquered again and again and again and they believed at some point that their God would vindicate them. Often people have so divorced the reading of the text from what was happening at the time which here, I think Jesus is giving these really pointed parables and I think giving them these images of do you want to participate in a new kind of world? Do you want to join me with God in helping the poor and bringing about a new heaven and earth right now? They were part of an entire religious establishment that was part of the problem, exploiting the poor, dehumanizing people and I think he’s using very strong, very pointed hyperbolic language to say to them, “Turn your thinking around. Turn your actions around or you’re going to miss this fresh new thing that God is doing.” … So when people extract lines out of this and say people everywhere are going to burn forever, they have so warped the message, taken it out of context and distorted the story. … You can take things out of context and make them say anything.

 

BLADE: You’re very open and affirming to gays. Did your views on LGBT issues evolve?

BELL: I always felt my gay friends should of course be part of the church and serve and lead there so any interactions I ever had were, “Yes, of course I embrace you and affirm you. I’m thrilled you are here.” But it seems like a lot of people, I didn’t understand how painful it is for people to be in an environment where they aren’t openly affirmed and embraced. I just assumed it was a matter of, “Just join us, let’s go and let’s do this.” It took me awhile to understand and now I have several friends who’ve said the same thing. So it became, “Oh wait, this is all our issue, we all need to speak up about this and become very strong in our affirming and embracing.” So it was a long, slow road of me coming to that understanding. … I’m thrilled with the progress that’s being made. I’m so happy about it.

 

BLADE: Do you feel God has a message for LGBT believers?

BELL: Yes. First off, so many who were raised in a religious environment where they were told there was something wrong with them, they had to do a lot of interior work to get over those messages and it took extraordinary courage. I’m constantly astounded by the incredible depth of character and maturity I see in the LGBT community because they have struggled. That fire produces such maturity and I’m just in awe of it. So I just say keep going and on behalf of everybody who ever told you a destructive message about who you are, I’m so sorry. You are loved and affirmed exactly as you are.

 

BLADE: Why do you feel God would make someone transgender?

BELL: I actually don’t find it helpful to think in terms of why would God make someone a particular way. I don’t have that view of God. I begin with the world the way it is. We all have different struggles and why is someone born feeling they’re not comfortable in their own skin, I’m not interested in blaming some divine being on a cloud somewhere with a long beard and that sort of thing. This is how this person has experienced life and what we need to do is support them in being true to who they feel they are. There’s no way to answer those questions other than to start with where we are today and what does it mean to move forward in health and wholeness and joy?

 

BLADE: There are lots of scriptures advising wariness to false teaching and not to let ourselves get “tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine.” Some say you’re a false teacher leading people astray. How does one discern anointed teaching vs. false teaching?

BELL: The ancient Hebrews had this word shalom, which sometimes gets translated as the word peace, but peace in a Western context usually means people are not fighting, the absence of war. But shalom is really about health and wholeness and there’s multiple dimensions of shalom — peace with each other, peace with the earth, taking good care of the earth, being comfortable in our own skin, being at peace with ourselves. So I would simply ask, “Does this, whatever this idea is, a new movement or new interpretation, does this help us move forward into a greater and greater depth of shalom or not?” To me, that’s a good place to start. If it does not, then we should be a bit suspicious.

 

BLADE: Is the needle shifting away from fundamentalism?

BELL: Absolutely and here’s why. You would not believe the number of big-shot Christian leaders who come meet with me and … say, “Thank you for your books, thanks for what you’re doing. I can’t say that in my setting because I would get fired.” They basically say they’re pro-same-sex marriage and they’re evolving and growing and realizing the importance of science in understanding the world, they’re reading the Bible in new ways, but they basically say, “I get a paycheck from propping up this whole old world view that’s not working anymore.” You would not believe it. So yes, I think extraordinary strides are being made.

 

BLADE: But then how does this “Duck Dynasty”-kind of mindset keep popping up in culture?

BELL: If you’re part of a subculture that’s dying, it’s terrifying. You used to have your hand on the wheel and you’re used to seeing yourselves as the dominant voice in culture and now that you’re not, your subculture is increasingly out of step and for some people, that’s not just a neutral thing, but a negative effect in the world. It’s terrifying and when someone who has a microphone or a TV show can say, “There’s no need to move forward, they’re the ones who are crazy, just dig in your heels with me on this, we’re the ones who are right,” and dig their stake into the ground, that’s incredibly comforting to them. It’s electric. No wonder people have incredible heat around this sort of thing. It’s a last desperate attempt to sort of put on blinders and pretend everything is always going to be how it is. The great French paleontologist de Chardin said the soul of the universe goes forward. Fundamentalism on an energetic level, is rooted in a desire to go back, to some sort of imagined pure state of perfection of how things used to be. The fact that the universe can only go forward is why fundamentalism always turns on itself and collapses in the end.

 

BLADE: You must have had situations where the evangelical gatekeepers started closing the gates to you. Did (religious publisher) Zondervan (Bells’ publisher for several early books) reject “Love Wins”?

BELL: I never thought of those types as people I had to have on my team. But oh yeah, probably even 14 or 15 years ago, I would hear of people telling people not to have anything to do with me. That started to become a regular occurrence, but I never saw that as the goal anyway. It wasn’t compelling to me to be in with any gatekeeper. I was just always on to the next thing. I joke that I felt like the drummer in “Spinal Tap.” I felt like I would spontaneously combust if I didn’t get the next book or the next tour done. People who aren’t on board, they’re not really on my radar.

 

BLADE: If you had stayed at Mars Hill, would you have felt like you were increasingly preaching to the choir?

BELL: What does that mean?

 

BLADE: Well, you know, did you feel a calling to take the message beyond just church folks?

BELL: Yes. It was time to take the next leap. … There were a lot of unknowns and a lot of risks but that’s how you stay fully alive. And yeah, it was a really extraordinary season where it was like the clouds moved and I knew it was time to go. So here we are, let’s do this. That was really amazing.

 

BLADE: If the needle is shifting, why does it seem like the mainline Protestant churches have done such a dismal job at harnessing any of that energy into their tradition? Why is all the growth and excitement in the evangelical churches?

BELL: If your world view is that billions of people are going to burn forever, that’s a pretty good motivator to get off your ass and do something so you see a lot of this endless entrepreneurial innovation and energy being funneled into these places with very rigid, regressive theology and world view. Then over here you have these progressive, open-minded churches that are great on peace and justice and reconciliation and they’re literally arguing about what the choir selections are or the color of the carpet. I’m like, “Wait, you guys have such great ideas, how have you made mountains out of these molehills?” That said, I do see extraordinary things happening like the Garden in Long Beach, Calif., or Oasis in central London where people are trying new things and it feels like the best fusion. It’s fresh and the best of all across the spectrum and it really feels to me like people in their garages coming up with the next lap top.

 

BLADE: What’s Oprah been like?

BELL: Oh my word, she is as amazing as you imagine she is. … She has profound wisdom and a mountain of spiritual riches to share. … She is growing and learning and stretching and asking, “What do I do with what I’ve been given?”

 

BLADE: You’re so knowledgeable about the scriptures and their historical context. What do you make of that passage in John where it references “many other signs and wonders” in the life of Christ that have not been included. I suppose most pastors would say we have all we need, but does that verse pique your curiosity?

BELL: Oh yeah, I’m totally with you on that. It’s like the writer is saying, “I just want you to know, I had tons of material to work with. I just want you to know that I edited this sucker down to these few chapters, but oh my, could I have included some other stuff.” Which I think is awesome. What a human book. … It’s so awesome and so weird and to me, makes it all the more interesting.

Rob Bell, gay news, Washington Blade

Rob Bell says the tide is turning toward more open-minded views in Christian America. (Photo courtesy the Bohlsen Group)

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The mastery of love

The world knows Eric Anderson as Billy Porter’s partner, but in Rehoboth Beach, he has a story entirely his own

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Eric Anderson and Billy Porter met at a Christmas party and ended up talking until the sun came up. (Photo courtesy of Eric Anderson)

The world knows Eric Anderson as Billy Porter’s partner. In Rehoboth Beach, Del., he has a life — and a story — entirely his own.

My first time with Eric Anderson was hot — very hot. Before he arrived, I sat waiting, overthinking everything. When he finally appeared in a loose-fitting T-shirt and purple shorts, I understood why he attracts attention. Eric is the kind of man who changes the energy of a room simply by entering it.

After a quick hello, we got right to it. Techno pulsed through the room as Eric told me how to move, where to place my hands, when to breathe. My heart pounded. My muscles ached. I bent, twisted, and stretched while sweat ran down my back and burned my eyes. I didn’t bother wiping it away.

To be clear, Eric and I were not alone. Five other people were with us — and the yoga studio at SoulFire Collective in Rehoboth Beach was heated to 87 degrees.

“If you are always racing toward the next moment, what happens to the one you’re in?” Eric asked, opening his power yoga class and inviting us to leave whatever had followed us through the door and surrender to the present. Surrender did not come easily. At 58, I’ve done enough yoga to know the difference between discomfort and imminent death. Halfway through Eric’s relentless flow, the distinction began to blur.

A playlist of techno and remixed pop — including “Live Like You Were Dying” — carried us from one demanding pose to the next. Eric moved among the mats with the energy of a nightclub DJ and the calm of someone who trusted our bodies to go further than our minds believed possible. Nearly an hour later, when the music softened and I collapsed onto my back in savasana, he laid a cool cloth across my forehead. I exhaled — relieved, and maybe a little disappointed, that my first time with Eric was over.

At the end of my mat, a handwritten note congratulated me on my first class and invited me back — a small benediction after the storm. Then Eric closed the class by repeating the question with which he’d opened. For a man whose relationship with actor and singer Billy Porter has drawn him unexpectedly into the public eye, it sounded less like a yoga mantra than a personal creed.

The next time I meet Eric, there is air conditioning and caffeine. We are at Starbucks, where I deliberately order the largest drinks available, as though volume alone might buy me more time. He chooses a matcha, and I order herbal tea. My heart is pounding again, faster than the soft rock drifting from the speakers above us. Although I’ve already spent more than an hour with Eric, I know almost nothing about the man I’m about to interview.

Neither, it seems, does anyone else.

Celebrity outlets offer a handful of biographical details: a Rehoboth Beach teacher and yoga instructor with a master’s degree from Columbia University. Gay publications have been less restrained. One introduced him as Billy Porter’s “total hot stud,” called him “a snacc,” and praised his ability to “rock a Speedo.” Queerty distilled Eric’s identity to five words: “Porter is dating a teacher.”

All of it tells me how the world sees him. None of it tells me who he is.

I know from our text exchanges that Eric is slammed for time. He is scheduled to travel to New York later that day and fly to WorldPride Amsterdam the following afternoon. Billy is among the headliners for the opening-night Unity Concert and is also slated to perform at the Wedding Party XXL alongside KI/KI, Bimini, and the Vengaboys. Eric still has to pack. This, I’m beginning to understand, is part of loving someone famous: there is almost always an itinerary, another city, and a specific time and place Billy needs to be. Even here, with two untouched drinks between us, the clock is ticking.

Eric Anderson (Photo courtesy of Eric Anderson)

As soon as we sit down, I open my laptop, ready to get to work. My mind is focused on the list of questions I’ve prepared, and I’ve already anticipated the shape of most of his responses. Then I look up and see Eric sitting perfectly still, smiling, and taking in the moment. He hasn’t even taken a sip of his matcha yet.

I quietly close my laptop and breathe.

Within minutes, the interview softens into a conversation.

Eric earned a bachelor’s degree in history from the University of Delaware and a master’s in public school leadership from Teachers College, Columbia University. He began his career teaching mathematics before moving into school administration, eventually serving as vice president of the Charter School of Wilmington and head of school at Sussex Academy. Today, he teaches mathematics and social studies in the Cape Henlopen School District. He also coaches soccer and leads yoga classes at SoulFire Collective in Rehoboth Beach.

His return to the classroom was deliberate. Eric knows some people assumed there must be a story behind his leaving administration—that he had done something wrong or that teaching represented a demotion.

“I want to make it clear that I went back to teaching by choice,” he says.

As a child, Eric played school. Teaching has always felt natural to him, less like an occupation than an expression of who he is. Administration was different.

“It felt like work,” he says. “It wasn’t where my passion was, and it didn’t bring me joy. Going back into the classroom was simply me choosing joy.”

The more Eric talks, the clearer it becomes that teaching is not merely a job but a vocation. His mother is white and his father is Black, and growing up biracial was not always easy. “I saw the best and the worst of both,” he tells me. Those experiences helped shape his desire to become a teacher — to be the kind of person who could make a meaningful difference in a young person’s life.

Just then, Eric glances over his shoulder and locks eyes with someone across the room. He waves and flashes what is quickly becoming his signature smile. My first thought is that someone has recognized him as Billy Porter’s partner.

I’m wrong. It’s one of his former students.

Inevitably, our conversation turns to love — and to Billy. I’ve made it clear that I’m here to write about Eric, not Billy Porter. But separating the two entirely would be as artificial as defining Eric only by their relationship. Billy is now an essential part of his story.

Eric met Billy at a Christmas party hosted by mutual friends who had been trying to introduce them all night. It wasn’t easy — the party was crowded, and the two men never quite crossed paths. Eric stayed for the afterparty, where a friend nudged him and nodded toward the room: Billy was looking his way. Romance never crossed his mind.

Eventually, they started talking. Eric has never had much patience for small talk, and he wasn’t interested in cataloging which celebrities Billy knew. He skipped it entirely and went straight for the deeper questions — what Billy believed, how he saw the world, what mattered to him. They ended up at the kitchen table, trading life philosophies until 5 a.m.

What struck Eric most wasn’t the conversation’s length. It was its depth. Billy wasn’t who he expected. Neither was the conversation. By the time the sun was coming up, Eric was less surprised that they’d talked all night than by how much, it turned out, they had in common.

They had dinner the following evening, and Billy invited Eric to spend the weekend with him in New York. There, Billy took him to see Nicole Scherzinger in “Sunset Boulevard.” Right before the show started, he casually introduced Eric to a friend named Katy. Back in their seats, Eric asked how Billy knew her.

“BITCH,” Billy replied, “that is Miss K-A-T-Y P-E-R-R-Y!”

For all the glamour surrounding their courtship, Eric describes the foundation of their relationship in decidedly spiritual terms. His favorite book is don Miguel Ruiz’s The Mastery of Love, which explores how fear, expectation, and the need for approval can distort relationships. Its philosophy closely resembles Eric’s own.

On the surface, Eric and Billy inhabit different worlds. Eric is a deeply spiritual teacher rooted in a small coastal Delaware town. Billy is a celebrated actor and performer whose larger-than-life persona commands stages around the world. But when I ask Eric how the relationship works, he doesn’t hesitate.

“I know that I can be my authentic self with him, and he can be his with me,” he says. “We love each other unconditionally.”

The words could sound rehearsed. Coming from Eric, they don’t.

The red carpets, famous faces, and international travel are not what matter most.

“It’s all about the people,” he explains. “I love Billy’s family and friends, and he loves mine.”

Authenticity surfaces repeatedly in our conversation — not as an abstract ideal, but as Eric’s determination to trust what feels right for him, even when other people may not understand it. I tell him about growing up in Pittsburgh and spending much of my life trying to fit the person I was into the person the world expected me to be. Eric listens intently, then pauses before responding.

“Fuck the system.”

It is blunt, funny, and entirely consistent with the man sitting across from me. Dating Billy may have dramatically increased the number of strangers who have opinions about Eric, but it hasn’t increased the number whose opinions matter to him. He is remarkably unconcerned with what people he doesn’t know think — or say — about him. The attention is new. His response to it is not.

For Eric, authenticity isn’t about asking the world for permission to be yourself. It’s about deciding that permission was never the world’s to give.

That instinct—to look inward rather than outward for permission — predates Billy.

Eric initially turned to yoga for a practical reason: he wanted to improve his physical performance on the soccer field. It didn’t take long for him to realize that something else was happening. Yoga was strengthening his body, but it was also grounding him.

Over time, the physical practice became inseparable from the mental one. The poses, the heat, even the strength required to hold his body in place became less important than learning how to quiet the noise around him, stay present, and listen to himself. The man who had pushed me through an hour of sweat and discomfort wasn’t simply teaching people how to move their bodies. He was asking them to practice something he had learned to do himself.

That sense of being grounded has become particularly important in a relationship that often requires two people to live very different lives. Eric is quick to point out that he and Billy have separate careers, separate ambitions, and goals entirely their own. Neither expects the other to abandon an individual life simply because they have chosen to build a relationship together.

When Billy left for London to star in “Cabaret,” distance became part of their routine. They FaceTimed every day, a practice they continue whenever they are apart.

“I tell Billy everything,” Eric says.

Being authentic with Billy doesn’t require the two men to become more alike. If anything, the opposite seems true. They are comfortable following their own career paths, living separate lives when circumstances require it, and giving each other the freedom to pursue what matters individually. Then they come back together — not because either has put his own life on hold, but because they have chosen to share those lives with each other.

When we finally look at the time, nearly 90 minutes have passed. Eric still needs to pack. New York is waiting, Amsterdam after that, and somewhere there is undoubtedly an itinerary telling Billy exactly where he needs to be and when.

But for a while, neither of us was racing toward the next moment.

We were fully inside the one we were in.

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What ‘Queer Eye for the Straight Guy’ can still teach us

Producer David Collins on lasting impact of hit series

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David Collins (Photo courtesy of Collins)

It’s hard to imagine where LGBTQ+ television would be without “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy,” the trailblazing reality series that premiered in 2003. 

Each episode of this Emmy-winning show saw a group of gays converge on a struggling man — the titular straight guy — and offer nonstop wit while organizing his endlessly messy life. This program about a group of homosexual helpers took the world by storm, furthering the love of gay television begun by shows like “Will and Grace” but bringing it into the growing medium of reality TV. Of course, it wasn’t perfect; “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” often cast its experts less as multi-faceted queer folks and more as sources of early 2000s gay jokes. But despite these pitfalls, it’s undeniable that the original program explored the realities of being gay in a way audiences had never seen before. It was a monumental piece of LGBTQ+ representation, and its success is largely owed to the man who fought to get this show made: producer David Collins. 

Collins spoke with the Blade from his Los Angeles home, where he’s spent the past few years living with his husband and his two daughters. David spoke fondly of his many years in the industry, detailing how it feels to be such a huge part of LGBTQ+ history. He explained, however, that he didn’t initially set out to alter how queer people were seen on television. “I never went out to make gay television,” said the producer. “I went out to tell great stories.”

“I’m a hillbilly from Ohio, and I thought I was going to be an editor,” David laughed, looking back on his career. “I interned at the Cincinnati Film Office, and I showed up to work my very first day, and the film commissioner was like, ‘Get to the airport right now and pick [someone] up. Don’t talk to them.’ Well, I ended up picking up Jodie Foster.” Collins raved about this car ride that changed his life, with the pair becoming friends and Foster pushing him to become a producer who puts their own media out into the world. Eventually, he did just that, and after learning about the wild new genre that was reality TV, he pitched a series to Bravo: “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” 

“I was obsessed with Esquire magazine, and they had five categories: fashion, grooming, interior design, culture, food, and wine. So I gave them each a gay, and the Fab Five were born!” Collins said, describing how viewers quickly fell in love with the concept and earned the program four seasons and an Emmy for Outstanding Reality Program. He spoke about how proud he felt creating a show that centered real gay people, not characters in a story, remembering, “To stand in the middle of Times Square and look up and see this massive billboard with the original Queer Eye guys…it wasn’t even a dream come true, because it wasn’t a dream I had even fathomed.”

With his series, people were watching actual gay men and learning the realities of a queer culture that had always been portrayed as a danger to society. Collins tearfully recounted hearing about queer people using the show as a way to connect with their family, saying, “What I’m most proud of that’s come out of Queer Eye [are] the conversations that that series has allowed to have people around their kitchen tables with little boys in Ohio like me who were scared to death that they were going to burn in hell because their pastor was telling them that they were a sinner.”

Now, for all of its trailblazing, the program wasn’t wholly positive; the show’s focus on the central ‘straight guy’ meant it rarely delved into the lives of its Fab Five. Collins regretted that lack of depth but understood that earlier audiences weren’t accustomed to such a nuanced look into queerness — that would have to wait for the reboot. 

When “Queer Eye” came out in 2018, audiences were introduced to not only a new Fab Five, but a whole new format (that didn’t rely on a straight person). Now, the series would assist queer folks and allies alike, spotlighting these individuals as well as the queer experts helping them improve their lives. The show has been applauded for its amazing makeovers, but where it truly stands out is its representation, offering a look into individuals across the country and the struggles — along with the immense joys — of being queer in America today.

Fans were disappointed to hear that “Queer Eye” would be ending after its 10th season, but David stressed that they wouldn’t have to be sad for long. “What I will say to you is this: hang tight,” he teased. “There’s yet another version of ‘Queer Eye’ to come, and we’re working on that now.” In the meantime, Collins is continuing his work with new shows like the “House of Stassi,” a series centered on “Vanderpump Rules’”prolific waitress. He’s excited about these new projects, but emphasized that his heart will always belong to “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” and all that it continues to do for viewers 19 years after its finale. 

“It’s not about your new outfit or your new couch or your new whatever. It’s about your humanity,” said Collins, speaking about the core lesson he hopes people take away from the Queer Eye franchise. “It’s about seeing yourself. It’s about dignity. It’s about how confidence breeds success.”

A valuable message that queer folks can benefit from even more now than they did in 2003. And, while it’s unclear just what lies ahead for this franchise, one thing is for sure: “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” helped people everywhere understand the power that exists within our queerness. It’s a truth that has impacted countless pieces of LGBTQ+ television today, and it’s one that Collins promises to keep alive through whatever hit show he creates next. 

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Jason DePuy on coping with homophobia in ‘Big Brother’ house

First drag queen contestant on CBS show fought to stay positive

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Jason DePuy on Big Brother (Photo courtesy of CBS Broadcasting,Inc.)

One week after Jason DePuy (known as Salina EsTitties on “RuPaul’s Drag Race”) was bullied and eventually evicted from CBS’s “Big Brother” house, the queer drag performer is still emotionally processing his feelings.

During his 24 days in the reality TV competition, DePuy often had a rough time, with fellow cast member Kamuela “Kamu” Kirk making homophobic comments and feeling isolated.

In a conversation with Head of Household Rick Devens, Kirk left viewers upset when he said, “Bro, miss me with the drag stuff. Miss me. I’m still an MMA guy, and I have an image to uphold.”

Former “Big Brother” contestant Frankie Grande called his words  ‘homophobic’ and ‘gross.’ Another comment, where Kirk said he wanted to end DePuy’s career, also received strong backlash online.

Now that he is out of the house, DePuy has been shocked and deeply touched by the love from “Big Brother” fans and former contestants. We chatted with DePuy for this Blade exclusive.

“To know that my community was rallying for me outside the house was the most wonderful thing. Seeing how much people were just wanting to shower me with love was incredible. Even my friends, I went to say hi and give them a hug, and they’re like, ‘Uh, uh, come here.’ They had to hold me and let me know America was feeling for me in a way that I had no idea.”

He added: “To see that reality was just overwhelming, and I couldn’t ask for more.”

Known as a messy player in the house, DePuy often had to fight to stay positive and stand up for himself. 

“No one was coming to my rescue. In real life, it’s easy to block people, but in the house, I didn’t have that luxury, so I had to find it within myself to learn how to speak up for myself in a way that wasn’t nasty or biting. I didn’t attack anyone personally, which is what I was the most proud of.”

DePuy acknowledged he has had a history of putting his foot in his mouth when it came to certain “Drag Race”moments, being in the public eye, and making a fool of himself. “I’ve learned my lessons; to see how I handled myself in the ‘Big Brother’ house was amazing.” 

While DePuy has been sober for 14 and a half years and has a strong spiritual foundation, in the Big Brother house, he often felt like he couldn’t communicate what he was feeling. 

“As a queer person, a person of color, a drag queen, I have to be very careful about how I move. I don’t have the luxury or privilege to just act a certain way or say a certain thing. I have to be very careful; I’m representing me. But who I am is a Latino, a person of recovery, a drag queen, a queer person in the community. I know that there’s a lot of pressure that comes with that. I felt it was safer for me to sit there and just breathe than try to do anything crazy.”

He continued: “I couldn’t speak to the personal attack that was happening in the house, because in my mind I was like, ‘no, this is a game, and I have to play it, put that aside.’”

Not only can viewers watch the episodes, but they can also watch the live feeds of what’s happening. Seeing the fans’ social media posts from people who had watched the episodes and the live feeds also contributed to DePuy realizing that his feelings of discomfort were valid.

“To know that I wasn’t delusional in those moments, that others could see what was happening, has been a lot to take in. Fans and friends let me know the comments made went beyond the game…I’m like, ‘Oh, so my instincts were correct.”

One of the most poignant moments on the live feeds occurred when DePuy was crying, alone in his room, and said how he missed his gay community.

“I really missed my friends. I missed my queer community. We’re so colorful. We’re so loud. We’re so vibrant. We speak off the cuff, and we’re very truthful and honest with how we speak, and it’s fun. We have fun lingo.”

DePuy had to censor his expressions in the house. “Because I can say one thing, but it can mean something different to straight people than it does with my queer brothers and sisters. So, there was a sense of code-switching that I had to do. I had to even put aside some of my queerness in a way sometimes to fit in.”

DePuy was thrilled to be the very first drag queen to ever be cast on the show. 

“I’m honored to have been chosen. There’s a million drag queens out there, and to know that I was a contender to come in the house and not even be in drag was like a wow for me. I’m over here in Hollywood, running around these streets with a wig and heels just to make a dollar to survive, and I have to rely on drag to do that. And then to be offered this opportunity and be given the privilege to say, ‘hey, you don’t have to put on the wig for you to be valuable here,’ is just insane to me.”

Prior to his shows, DePuy has been hustling for 15 years, flipping burgers and doing drag at night.

“That has been my life these past since I was 17. So it’s been a long journey; the opportunity to do this out of drag is a very big blessing. I’m honored and grateful to be the representation of my community.”

If you missed Jason on “Big Brother: Unlocked,” the episode can be seen on CBS.com. He will be back on the show for the finale.

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