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Gay ambassador reflects on U.S. efforts in Ukraine

Baer talks monitoring mission, being openly gay in negotiations with Russia

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Daniel Baer, State Department, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, gay news, Washington Blade
Daniel Baer, United States Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, gay news, Washington Blade

Gay U.S. ambassador Daniel Baer is representing U.S. interests during the Ukraine crisis at the Organization for Security & Cooperation in Europe (Washington Blade photo by Michael Key).

Amid the ongoing crisis in Ukraine following Russian President Vladimir Putin’s military incursion into the country, the Obama administration is relying on a gay ambassador to help de-escalate tensions.

Daniel Baer, U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security & Cooperation in Europe, has in the days since the start of the crisis been working with envoys at the Vienna-based pan-Atlantic international forum to address the situation — in addition to keeping the world updated via his Twitter account.

His priority for the moment is achieving a consensus to allow a OSCE-based monitoring mission to enter Ukraine, although he admits he’s under “no illusion” that will be easy in a body on which Moscow has veto power.

In an interview with the Washington Blade via phone from Vienna after the third emergency meeting at the forum in as many days, Baer described the multi-level approach the United States is undertaking to de-escalate tensions in Ukraine.

“In the past, we’ve seen in other situations where there have been similar concerns raised, a monitoring mission [has worked] by both assessing and reporting facts on the ground and by being there to work to mediate tension and addressing the concerns that have been raised,” Baer said.

But Baer’s participation has significance because he’s openly gay and handling negotiations with a country that is known for enacting anti-LGBT laws and having an anti-LGBT climate.

Nonetheless, Baer, 37, said he’s never felt that his sexual orientation has been an issue for Putin’s representatives at OSCE.

“Just like being gay, working with the U.S. ambassador is not a choice, and I’m ready to work with all of them,” Baer said.

Founded during the Cold War, the OSCE was set up as a forum for the United States and the Soviet Union to speak about concerns and has become a pan-Atlantic forum now comprising 57 European, Asian and North American countries.

After the U.S. Senate confirmed Baer in August as U.S. envoy to OSCE, he relocated to Vienna with his partner of three-and-a-half years Brian Walsh, 27, a physicist now working at an international think-tank on environmental issues.

The transcript of the interview between the Washington Blade and Baer follows:

Washington Blade: How would you characterize the situation in Vienna as the crisis in Ukraine unfolds?

Daniel Baer: I guess a couple things. The OSCE is a big political organization, and an operational entity that has field offices in 16 countries, including Ukraine and many independent institutions that are doing things all the time. So, there’s been kind of two levels of activity.

One, there’s been a sense of urgency in terms of getting the existing capacities of OSCE mobilized to engage in Ukraine, and particularly in Crimea now, in the ways that they can to help de-escalate tension. So, there’s a High Commissioner for National Minorities, the Swiss special envoy who’s the current ambassador to Germany now, but a designated special envoy to Ukraine who sits as the chair of the OSCE right now. The Representative on Freedom of the Media, they just arrived in Crimea a couple hours ago, and then the project office in Kiev is being supplemented.

In addition, because OSCE does arms control, and military transparency, the Ukrainians have invited military monitoring missions. They have an invitation for two military monitors from every participating state in the OSCE.

Then, there’s the political side, and lot of people focus on the downside of the OSCE, which is you operate on consensus. And it’s a big tent that includes the Russian Federation, the United States, Canada and basically everybody in between — and Mongolia. That is both a hindrance, in the sense that it makes consensus harder, but it’s also an asset in the sense that the other project that we’re starting to work on now is trying to develop a mandate for a new special monitoring mission to Ukraine and that will require consensus, but the upside is that if we can find a description of a mandate that works for everyone, it will also have the political value of being blessed by Ukrainians, the Federation, the EU countries, Turkey, ourselves and Canada.

So, it’ll have broad backing. And so, we’re kind of taking the two-pronged approach of mobilize quickly everything that’s already set up and teed up, and ready to go, and also look at this kind of near-to-medium term possibility of setting up a monitoring mission.

That’s something that I’m under no illusions — I think it’s going to be very hard, and really all we can do is tee it up, and leave that door open. And if and when the Russian Federation decides to engage on that and walk through that door, we’ll be ready to work with them.

Daniel Baer, State Department, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, gay news, Washington Blade

U.S ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Daniel Baer addresses the media following a meeting. (Photo public domain)

Blade: What makes setting up that monitoring mission “very hard”? I know Moscow has veto power on the OSCE, so how likely is it that we’ll actually see that happening?

Baer: I think the answer is it won’t happen unless Moscow decides that they see value in it, or they think it can be useful. I think our position all along has been there are a variety of concerns that have been raised by the Russian Federation, including concerns about the security of their military base and the human rights of the Russian minority in Crimea, and Ukraine more broadly, etc. There are obviously concerns that are being raised by the Ukrainians themselves about a Russian military incursion on their territory.

But the way to address the concerns that the Russians have raised is not through sending in troops, but through a monitoring mission. And this is an alternative for them. In the past, we’ve seen in other situations where there have been similar concerns raised, a monitoring mission [has worked] by both assessing and reporting facts on the ground and by being there to work to mediate tension and addressing the concerns that have been raised. Yes, they have to choose to take that route instead of the illegal and illegitimate route that they are currently taking, but… one of the ways in which we can make de-escalation more likely is by teeing up that choice, so they can make that choice. …

Blade: Let’s get a little personal. What do you think is the significance of an openly gay person representing U.S. interests in diplomacy with Russia, a country that has passed laws against gay people?

Baer: You know, I think to all of my colleagues when I showed up here in Vienna, most of my colleagues only knew one or two things about me. Everyone knew that I was gay, and the other thing talked about was that I was young. Other than that, they knew that I was an American ambassador. Six months later, it’s certainly more important that I’m the U.S. ambassador than anything else about me, and I have a decent working relationship with all my colleagues.

I have a weekly meeting with the Russian ambassador, and Brian and I have invited him and his wife to the Marine ball along with others. So, we built a working relationship. I guess it would be an interesting question for him. For me, I’m trying to do my job the best I can and represent my country the best I can.

I think one of the strengths that America has is that we increasingly — there’s still work to do on many dimensions — but we increasingly have a diplomatic corps that represents our diversity, and part of that is important because it makes us more effective. Part of that is important because it more accurately represents the country. And it’s super important because part of what others see as valuable and powerful and engaging and attractive about America is the promise of progress toward a society that embraces rights for everyone. I don’t see that as having anything to do with me, per se, but to the extent that there’s a broader story there. I think it’s valuable that we continue to make progress on that front.

Blade: So no Russian officials refused or expressed any reluctance to negotiate with you because of your sexual orientation?

Baer: I have not had any experience where they have refused to engage with me. For some people, whether Russian or otherwise, I’m the first ambassador from the United States that they’ve known was gay and they have to work with. I guess one of the advantages of being the U.S. ambassador in a multi-lateral institution is that it’s pretty hard to be effective and not work with the U.S. ambassador — one way or the other. Just like being gay, working with the U.S. ambassador is not a choice, and I’m ready to work with all of them. And I certainly go into it giving everybody the benefit of the doubt that it isn’t an issue because it shouldn’t be an issue.

Blade: You said they haven’t refused, but have they expressed any reluctance to work with you because of your sexual orientation?

Baer: Not to me. Not to me. If they have, they’ve kept it from me.

Blade: Let’s get back to the bigger picture. Regarding Secretary of State John Kerry’s visit to Ukraine, what impact do you think it’ll have on the situation?

Baer: I think the secretary has actually come and has already arrived in Paris, and will meet with [Russian] Foreign Minister [Sergey] Lavrov in Paris tomorrow. But he spent today in Kiev. I think everybody recognizes that the people of Ukraine have a new temporary government. An election’s declared for May 25. It’s usually important that there is strong support for free and fair elections, and a free and fair campaign environment. Everybody is rightfully focused on the security crisis in Crimea, and also in the rest of the country, there’s a lot of work to do.

And I think the people of Ukraine need to be supported in their efforts to build a prosperous, free, democratic Ukraine. And that’s going to take a lot of support from the international community, and I think Secretary Kerry is going to demonstrate our support for the transition government that is there until the election and our willingness and readiness to help support them in their efforts to build a free, democratic Ukraine.

Blade: How is Kerry being there having an impact as opposed to monitoring the situation from overseas?

Baer: Well, I think, certainly there’s a diplomatic value to it in terms of the conversations that you have, and, of course, it also sends a signal. So if being there sends a signal that the depth of the U.S. commitment and our engagement with the government, I think that signal is an important one to send, particularly at a moment like this.

Blade: What about sanctions? A number of European countries seem reluctant to impose sanctions on Russia. What actually can this administration do to convince its NATO allies and trading partners to get on the program for sanctions with real teeth against Russia?

Baer: Oh, I think the president and Secretary Kerry have had a number of conversations over the last 72 hours and 96 hours with allies and partners in Europe, and I think although the EU has its own function, and we have ours, etc., I think there’s a lot of strong cooperation right now on ways to respond to Russia’s illegal actions…I think there is strong cooperation between the U.S. and the E.U. and individual member states in the E.U. making clear that the Russian incursion and military presence is unacceptable and that they need to go back to their bases, and that it’s up to President Putin to do the right thing and de-escalate the situation.

Blade: Do you see that co-operation extending to an agreement on sanctions with Europe with regard to Russia?

Baer: Like I said, the secretary and president are working very hard to keep our allies and partners appraised of our steps, and to coordinate those. I think those conversations are ongoing, and I think that that strong cooperation will continue.

Blade: What do you think Putin is trying to accomplishment with this incursion? Restoration of the Soviet Union?

Baer: I don’t know. That’s a question for President Putin. I don’t know what he’s trying to accomplish, but certainly the steps that he’s taking are not contributing to stability in the region, to the future of a strong Ukraine, which Russia has everything to gain from as a close neighbor. Russia and Ukraine are going to have a relationship determined by geography if not by partnership, and so Russia has everything to gain from a strong Ukraine. There’s not an either-or choice, and the actions that Mr. Putin have taken are a violation of international law, they’re a violation of many commitments the Russian Federation has made, including here at the OSCE with respect to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of participating states. And they’re a violation of reason, and they are not in Russia’s interest, and certainly not in Ukraine’s.

Blade: What’s your reaction to today’s news that Putin said he sees no reason for Russian forces to intervene in eastern Ukraine at the moment but that Russia “reserves the right to use all means at our disposal to protect” Russian speakers if they are in danger?

Baer: I think I reject the rationale that has been offered for the military incursion and invasion so far, and there’s no defensible rationale for further movement. The right direction for the troops to move is not further, but back to their bases.

Blade: Do you think that comment is troubling?

Baer: Like I said, I think there’s no good rationale for the Russian Federation to have its troops on Ukrainian soil.

Blade: Do you see any scenario in which this crisis will escalate into military engagement involving the United States?

Baer: Nobody wants an escalation into war, so all of our efforts are focused on de-escalating the situation through direct diplomatic engagement and the deployment of an international monitoring force either through the OSCE or the UN. They’re other ways to approach this, but we’re certainly working around the clock to the head in that direction.

Blade: Is it safe to say military engagement is off the table?

Baer: That’s not a question for me.

Daniel Baer, State Department, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, gay news, Washington Blade, Brian Walsh

U.S. ambassador for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Daniel Baer with partner Brian Walsh. (Image public domain)

Blade: Let’s get back to some personal stuff. How is the situation with Brian since you’ve moved to Vienna and since the start of his crisis?

Baer: I get to spend far less time with Brian, but other than that it hasn’t changed anything. We’re settling well, and he’s incredibly supportive.

Blade: Do you have any anecdotes about any activities you too had engaged in since you’ve moved to Vienna?

Baer: Well, it’s been a big change because it’s a new country and a new job. And we’ve been skiing in Austria, and that was fun. Being a diplomat overseas is very different from working in the State Department. One of the advantages being here in this post is you have 56 other ambassadorial colleagues and there’s an interesting and diverse group of people to get to know.

We’re settling into that world, and the whole time, we’re very, very much aware of the fact that this is a temporary arrangement. We’re trying to make the most of it. Enjoy the hard work, enjoy the fun and cool parts of the job.

Blade: Let’s get back to Russia. How do you evaluate how Russia handled the Olympics?

Baer: I think we’re all glad that the Olympics came off without any security incidents, etc. I think, as everyone knows, there was a great deal of investment of resources and political attention in the Olympics, and I was proud of U.S. athletes.

Blade: There were reports that were some arrests of demonstrators, including those protesting about LGBT rights. Were you aware of that and do you think they were cause for concern?

Baer: Yes. It’s always of concern when there are arrests of people protesting. In the Russian Federation, unfortunately, it’s not extraordinary. And there were arrests this past weekend of protesters who were protesting Russia’s invasion. Several hundred people were detained, I believe. I should check the reports. And there was a sentence last week of protesters, people who protested in the Bolotnaya Square, protests in 2012. So, Russia’s recent record on freedom of expression and freedom of association and assembly is not encouraging.

Blade: Russia has passed anti-gay laws that were criticized by the international community. Now that the Olympics are over, what is going to happen to LGBT people in Russia?

Baer: I think there are two things. One, we will continue to call out the so-called gay propaganda law and the other laws that have either been proposed or enacted along with it. Obviously, they’re inconsistent with internationally recognized human rights, and that such laws not only affect gay people, but the broader population, and also have a teaching effect, which creates a climate in which the rights of LGBT rights are most likely to be disrespected. We’ve seen an uptick in the kind of vigilante beatings of LGBT people posted online. The climate of intolerance that such laws encourage is something to be deeply concerned about.

That said, I think one of the things that it’s really important to focus on is that it’s not only gay people who have their rights trampled in the Russian Federation. Minorities, migrants from neighboring countries that represent minority populations suffer enormous discrimination, and obviously any Russian citizen has a hard time expressing political views that are critical of the government or joining a peaceful protest. The anti-gay laws are actually happening against a much broader recession on human rights more generally.

Blade: And what do you think is the best way forward to address that by the international community?

Baer: I think first of all, I always start from the premise that lasting change comes from within, so to continue to shine a light on human defenders and advocates who are making the case for change where they are — both LGBT, and more broadly, the human rights defenders and activists — and to call out the cases when their rights are violated. I think making the case to the Russian population more broadly as well to Russian leadership that a strong stable Russian Federation does not come from doubling down on restrictions it comes from democratic progress, including people who have respect for human rights. You have to make the political argument, and you have to call out the failures, and to continue to press, and know that doors will open where you don’t expect them, and you need to be ready to walk through them.

By calling out people’s situations, you remind them that they’re not alone and that they have people who are with them, and, over the long run, you push and you push and you push.

There’s a strong civil society that understands all of the reasons why the backsliding on human rights more broadly is bad for business, and all around it’s bad for Russia, and that trajectory needs to be turned around.

Blade: What about upcoming plans for you and Brian?

Baer: We’re getting married this summer. We haven’t quite figured that out yet because same-sex marriage isn’t legal in Austria, but we’re working on that. But in August.

Daniel Baer, State Department, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, gay news, Washington Blade, Brian Walsh

U.S. ambassador for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Daniel Baer with partner Brian Walsh. (Image public domain)

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District of Columbia

Comings & Goings

SMYAL names new program, development leaders

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From left, Carla Lester and Tad Czyzewski

The Comings & Goings column is about sharing the professional successes of our community. We want to recognize those landing new jobs, new clients for their business, joining boards of organizations and other achievements. Please share your successes with us at [email protected]

Congratulations to Carla Lester, LICSW on her new position as Chief Program Officer with SMYAL. Upon accepting the position she said, “SMYAL deeply aligns with my passion for honoring, protecting, and upholding the rights of all individuals, particularly LGBTQ+ youth and others who have been historically underserved, to belong to communities that affirm their identities, treat them with dignity and respect, and support their well-being. At this point in my career, I was ready to transition to an organization whose mission more closely reflected my values and was rooted in the community. SMYAL offered the opportunity to serve both an organization and a population whose mission not only resonates deeply with me but also intersects with my own multiple identities.”

Lester is a healthcare and human services executive with more than 20 years of experience in behavioral health, federal and state health insurance programs, housing, health care, education, and community-based services. She has held senior roles at Carelon Behavioral Health, Pathways to Housing and N Street Village, leading clinical programs, Housing First initiatives, homeless outreach, trauma-informed services, and integrated case management.

She earned master’s degrees in Social Work and Divinity, and maintains active clinical social work licenses in D.C. and Maryland.

Congratulations also to Tad Czyzewski on his new position as Chief Development Officer at SMYAL. On accepting the position, he said, “While I’ve spent much of my nonprofit career in the arts, the current social and political environments made me want to apply my skills and passion more directly toward supporting and strengthening our community. SMYAL and this role felt like the right place to do that.”

Czyzewski brings more than two decades of experience in nonprofit leadership and strategy, fundraising, and business development. Prior to joining SMYAL, he served for eight years as executive director of The Choral Arts Society of Washington, where he led fundraising, financial management, and community engagement. During his tenure, he helped raise more than $15 million in contributed revenue. He guided the organization through a major rebrand and the COVID-19 pandemic. 

Prior to that Czyzewski served as Business and Development Director for Washington Revels, and held leadership and advisory roles with Chorus America, the DC Commission on the Arts and Humanities, and the National Endowment for the Arts. He began his career in the corporate sector, including at Capital One, where his work in product development and marketing contributed to new financial products and more than $2 billion in deposits. 

Czyzewski is a lifelong musician, has performed professionally as a classical singer, including with the Washington National Opera and the National Symphony Orchestra. 

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Obituary

Beloved pastor, AIDS activist Rainey Cheeks dies at 74

Lifelong D.C. resident founded Inner Light Ministries, Us Helping Us

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Bishop Kwabena Albert ‘Rainey’ Cheeks (Photo courtesy of UCC of Fredericksburg)

Bishop Kwabena Albert “Rainey” Cheeks, the founder and former senior pastor of D.C.’s LGBTQ supportive Inner Light Ministries church and founder of Us Helping Us, People Into Living, which provides services for D.C.-area residents with HIV with an outreach to the Black LGBTQ community, passed away on Aug. 11 at Georgetown University Hospital. He was 74.

 Statements released by Inner Light Ministries and Us Helping Us describe Cheeks as a pivotal leader in the advocacy for supportive and welcoming religious services and support for the LGBTQ community and for helping to establish HIV treatment and prevention services for LGBTQ people most at risk for HIV/AIDS.

 “In 1985, Bishop Cheeks founded Us Helping Us with a vision rooted in love, community empowerment, and the belief that our people deserved to live healthy, whole, and dignified lives,” Us Helping Us says in a statement announcing Cheeks’s passing.

“What began as a vision became a movement – one that has touched countless lives and continues to serve communities today,” the statement says. “His leadership, courage, compassion, and commitment to our community helped lay the foundation for the work we carry forward. While we grieve the loss of  the man who started it all, we also celebrate the extraordinary legacy he leaves behind.” 

Bishop Kwabena Albert ‘Rainey’ Cheeks in 1994. (Washington Blade archive photo by Kristi Gasaway)

“For over 30 years, Us Helping Us has been providing innovative care and services to improve the health and well-being of Black, gay men,” the organization says on its website. “We work every day to reduce the impact of HIV/AIDS in the entire Black community by providing care to anyone who walks through our door,” the statement says.

In a separate statement on its website, Inner Light Ministries says Cheeks  founded the LGBTQ supportive church in 1993 and served as its senior pastor. One of his former assistants, Rev. Darryll Moch, said Cheeks retired as pastor in 2018 but remained active in the church in the role of Pastor Emeritus until the time of his passing.

 “His work as an outspoken advocate for the LGBT community and the inclusive nature of spirituality and ministry extends to everyone and the Love of God is not exclusive of anyone,” the church statement says. “This work has fueled ministers and ministries around the country and the world,” it adds.

It says Cheeks graduated and was ordained in 1982 from the National Spiritual Science Center  of the  Nation’s Capital and received an Honorary Doctorate of Divinity degree from the St. Andrews Theological Seminary in London, England. 

The Inner Light Ministries statement and others who knew Cheeks point out that he played a lead role in helping to open in 1975 the Clubhouse nightclub that operated until its closing in 1990 as a mostly Black LGBTQ social club. Although  the Clubhouse became known as a Black gay bar, it only served alcoholic beverages during special events, according to a 2021 article about the popular venue by the D.C. History Center.

The article says Cheeks and four others arranged for the Clubhouse to operate at 1296 Upshur St., N.W. in the city’s Petworth neighborhood “as a place where anyone 16 and over could go and have the house party they couldn’t have in their own house.”     

The Inner Light Ministries statement says the Clubhouse, under Cheeks’s leadership, became a place where “hundreds in D.C.’s LGBT community flocked in the doors for both community and spiritual refuge, dancing and celebrating with each other weekly.”

The statement says Cheeks was also designated as a Grand Master in the Korean form of martial arts and karate known as Tae Kwon Do. It says he was rated in the top 10 in that martial arts category in the U.S. and won a silver and bronze metal in the first world championship competition in Soul, Korea, where Tae Kwon Do originated.

 “In 2002, he was inducted into the Tae Kwon Do International Hall of Fame and received the rank of Grand Master 9th Degree,” the statement says. 

As if that were not enough, the statement says Cheeks was certified in grief and bereavement counseling and had served as a teacher in the subjects of meditation and world religion.  

Bishop Kwabena Albert “Rainey” Cheeks in 2010. (Washington Blade archive photo by Michael Key)

It says he has received numerous awards for his service to the D.C. community, including from the D.C. LGBTQ Rainbow History Project, former D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams’s Community Service Award, the Whitman Walker Health Community Service Award, and the Episcopal Care and Response Community Award. 

In an updated statement released on Aug. 13, Inner Light Ministries calls Cheeks a dedicated leader whose work and impact “extended far beyond the pulpit.” 

“Bishop Cheeks was more than a religious leader,” it says. “Bishop Cheeks was a builder of bridges, a voice for the voiceless, and  a constant reminder that service is one of the highest callings,” it says, adding, “Through both word and deed, Bishop Cheeks inspired others to stand for equity, care for one another, and work tirelessly for a better tomorrow.”

A Celebration of Life for Cheeks is scheduled to take place at 11 a.m.  Saturday, Aug. 29, at D.C.’s First Congregational Church at 945 G Street, N.|W. 

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Pentagon

Supreme Court ruled Boy Scouts could exclude James Dale. Now he says that same rule protects LGBTQ scouts from Trump

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Scouts marching in a Pride Parade. (Washington Blade file photo by Michael Key)

James Dale, the gay former Boy Scout whose landmark Supreme Court case established the organization’s First Amendment right to exclude him, has filed a second federal lawsuit against the Department of Defense over its relationship with Scouting America.

The Aug. 3 lawsuit, which is being exclusively reported by the Blade, seeks records about how the Pentagon is enforcing its ongoing compliance reviews with Scouting America, escalating Dale’s legal challenge to what he and his attorney, Isaac Park, characterize as government pressure on a private organization to change its policies.

The filing, which has not previously been reported, comes months after Dale sued the Pentagon under the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the memorandum outlining the department’s agreement with Scouting America. That first lawsuit resulted in the Pentagon releasing the memorandum just three weeks after Dale filed his complaint.

Now, Dale and Park want to know what happened after the memorandum was signed — including how the Pentagon is conducting its 90-day compliance reviews and whether those reviews are being used to pressure Scouting America to make additional changes.

The second lawsuit cites the Supreme Court’s 2024 ruling in NRA v. Vullo, which addressed when government officials cross the constitutional line by using their authority to pressure private organizations or entities into taking action the government itself could not directly require.

“I find myself in this interesting, ironic place where I’m defending the decision that expelled me,” Dale told The Washington Blade. “That said, Scouts, you have a First Amendment shield to protect yourselves from the DOD.”

Dale’s legal fight comes as Scouting America faces pressure from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who has criticized the organization’s embrace of LGBTQ youth, girls and Scouts of color.

In recent years, Scouting America has made significant progress toward becoming a more inclusive organization — from removing its bans on LGBTQ Scouts and leaders, to providing opportunities for women and girls to participate in Scouting, to making Scouts of color feel more supported and visible within the organization.

Those changes angered Hegseth, who has never been a Scout, to the point that he threatened to sever the military’s longstanding ties with the organization.

Such a move would mean that the U.S. military would no longer provide medical and logistical support for the National Jamboree, the massive gathering of Scouts in West Virginia that typically draws about 20,000 participants. It would also prevent Scout troops from meeting on U.S. or overseas military installations, where many bases host active Scouting programs.

In February, before that threat was carried out, Hegseth announced that the Pentagon had reached an agreement with Scouting America that he said would refocus the organization away from diversity initiatives and other policies he characterized as “woke.” He again threatened to end the military’s longstanding support for the organization if it failed to comply within six months.

Hegseth also placed particular emphasis on Scouting America’s policies regarding transgender youth, saying the organization would require members to use their “biological sex at birth and not gender identity.”

But Scouting America President and CEO Roger Krone struck a different tone.

“We have transgender people in our program and we’ll have transgender people in our program going forward,” Krone told The Associated Press in February.

The conflicting messages prompted Dale to dig deeper.

“I wanted to get to the bottom of what deal had been struck with Scouting America under pressure,” Dale said. “What pressure did the Pentagon apply on a private youth organization that had a right to determine their own members?”

Dale filed a Freedom of Information Act request seeking the memorandum between the Pentagon and Scouting America. When the Defense Department did not provide the document, he turned to Park, a former Supreme Court clerk, and sued the department for its release.

Park said they deliberately took a narrow approach to the FOIA lawsuit, seeking a single document rather than launching a broader fight over thousands of pages of government records.

“We had one document that we really wanted, which was this memorandum, and we were going to ensure that there’s like a lead-pipe, stone-cold case for disclosure,” Park said.

The strategy worked quickly. Three weeks after the lawsuit was filed, the Pentagon released the memorandum.

But the document did not end Dale and Park’s questions. Instead, they said, it raised new ones.

Hegseth had publicly described a six-month window for Scouting America to make changes. But the memorandum provides for an ongoing compliance mechanism, with reviews taking place every 90 days.

For Dale and Park, that raises the possibility that the Pentagon could continue pressing Scouting America to change its policies long after the February agreement was announced.

Park described their concern as “jawboning” — the use of government power or influence to pressure a private organization into changing its policies without the government directly ordering it to do so.

“We saw in the weeks after the announcement of the memorandum changes being made to Scouting America’s policies,” Park said. “Them saying one thing, the department saying a slightly different thing, and our first question then was, of course, like, what is actually in this memorandum? Is this how they kind of got what they wanted?”

The memorandum, Park said, “clarified certain questions, but definitely also didn’t contain other changes” that Scouting America had made.

“That naturally arises: Well then, how did those changes come about?” he said.

Dale points to changes at Scouting America’s National Jamboree as an example of what he believes could be the result of the pressure.

The organization removed dedicated spaces for girls, Scouts of color and LGBTQ Scouts at the flagship event, which concluded last week.

“We see spaces for girls being eradicated, spaces for kids of color, spaces for gay people, for trans kids,” Dale said. “It happened at the flagship event of scouting, the jamboree.”

Dale said he fears similar changes could occur at the local level, including at Scout meetings and council events.

“All this document is empowering the government to keep pressing, keep putting pressure on Scouting America,” Dale said. “And what is that doing to American kids?”

The dispute is particularly striking because of Dale’s own history with the organization.

Dale had a long history with Scouting before the organization expelled him in 1990. At the time, he was a 19-year-old student at Rutgers University in New Jersey and was serving as an assistant Scoutmaster for Troop 73.

While attending Rutgers, Dale became co-president of the university’s Lesbian/Gay Student Alliance and was interviewed by The Star-Ledger about the health and well-being of LGBTQ students.

The interview made its way to Boy Scouts officials. The organization subsequently expelled Dale after learning that he was gay, describing him as an “active sodomite.”

Dale sued the Boy Scouts under New Jersey’s public accommodations law and initially won. The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled in his favor, finding that the state’s interest in preventing discrimination outweighed the organization’s claimed right to exclude him.

The Boy Scouts appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

In a 5-4 decision in 2000, the Supreme Court reversed the New Jersey ruling, holding that forcing the Boy Scouts to accept Dale as an openly gay assistant scoutmaster would violate the organization’s First Amendment right to freedom of expressive association.

The Scouts had argued that homosexual conduct was inconsistent with the values it sought to instill in young people.

Dale was devastated by the ruling.

“I thought it was the wrong decision at the time,” he said.

But the constitutional protection the Supreme Court recognized in his case is now at the center of Dale’s argument against the Pentagon.

The Boy Scouts’ policies have changed dramatically since Dale’s case. The organization began allowing openly gay youth in 2013 and gay adult leaders in 2015. It later expanded its policies to include transgender youth and adults.

The Boy Scouts of America formally changed its name to Scouting America in 2025.

Dale said those changes were made voluntarily — precisely the kind of private organizational decision that the Supreme Court’s ruling in his case protected.

“They did it voluntarily,” Dale said. “They won the Supreme Court case against me.”

Now, he argues, Scouting America should invoke that same protection against the government.

Park said that is the central constitutional question behind their efforts.

“In 1990, when he was expelled from the Scouts for being gay, and in 2000, after a narrow 5-4 loss at the court, we were told that a private entity, an organization like Scouting, are allowed to set their own membership policies,” Park said.

Over the following two decades, Park said, Scouting America changed those policies on its own.

“We won the culture war,” Park said. “Organizations like Scouting America decided on their own, of their own free will, that actually what they want is to be inclusive with respect to gay youth, with respect to trans youth.”

The question now, Park said, is whether the government can pressure an organization to reverse those voluntary decisions.

“I think that the story here is that of jawboning,” Park said. “Our question has always been the how of how this administration is achieving whatever policy goals, whatever ideological outcomes that they want.”

Dale sees the issue as extending well beyond Scouting America.

“It’s not even about the scouting program,” Dale said. “It is, but it’s much bigger than that. It’s about really what the executive branch is doing to private organizations that have a right to set their own policies for membership.”

Park said the argument could appeal to people across the political spectrum.

“During the Biden administration, it was COVID policy, and it was the NRA that the right was screaming about jawboning,” Park said. “This is a bipartisan issue in the sense that no one thinks the government is allowed to do this.”

For now, Dale and Park are seeking more information.

Park said their review of the memorandum left them with additional questions about the Pentagon’s relationship with Scouting America and whether the 90-day compliance mechanism is being used to continue influencing the organization.

“Disclosure or transparency is the right remedy for this,” Park said.

Dale’s interest in Scouting is not merely legal.

He said he still believes deeply in the organization and had returned to involvement with Scouting only recently, after years away.

“I love scouting,” Dale said. “I fought for a decade to get back in scouting.”

That makes his current position all the more unusual.

The organization that once fought him in court is now the organization he is trying to defend from government interference.

“I never thought that would be the case,” Dale said. “That would be saving queer kids.”

Dale said he hopes Scouting America will ultimately stand up for the policies it adopted after his Supreme Court case.

“They didn’t want gay people in the ’90s. Fine, I thought that was wrong,” Dale said. “But now they want to have trans kids. They want to have girls. They want to have kids of color.”

“But Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth don’t want them to,” he said.

The Pentagon declined to comment on Dale’s allegations or the ongoing litigation.

“As a matter of policy, we do not comment on ongoing litigation,” a Pentagon spokesperson told The Washington Blade via email.

The Blade also contacted Scouting America seeking clarification about its agreement with the Pentagon, including whether Hegseth or other Defense Department officials had pressured the organization to remove or alter policies protecting LGBTQ Scouts, girls, or Scouts of color.

Scouting America did not respond to a request for comment.

For Dale, the fight has brought his long-running legal battle with the Scouts full circle.

He spent the 1990s arguing that the organization should not be permitted to exclude him because he was gay. The Supreme Court ultimately said the Scouts had a constitutional right to make that choice.

Now Dale is arguing that the government cannot force the organization to make a different choice.

“I realized over the course of my life that I expected the institution to save me,” Dale said. “I expected the Boy Scouts of America to do the right thing. I expected the legal system, the Supreme Court, to do the right thing.”

“Neither one did,” he said. “You got to fight for yourselves.”

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